?Re: [Az-Geocaching] Use of Geocaching.com for commercial solicitation
RAND HARDIN
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Sat, 29 May 2004 05:53:46 -0700
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Okay gang, it's time to put "Primerica" and "Ron Adams" out of business. =
Here's the address where you can file a complaint for those who violate =
the "National Do Not Call Registry."
https://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.aspx =20
Rand (RandMan) =20
----- Original Message -----
From: David Thompsen
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:51 PM
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: Re: ?Re: [Az-Geocaching] Use of Geocaching.com for commercial so=
licitation
If the company that the caller in question is Primerica, the scenario is =
much clearer to me. =20
Primerica is a "multi-level marketing" company in the mold of Amway/Quixt=
ar or Mary Kay, except they sell insurance and financial services. As ma=
ny people out there, likely including some that subscribe to this list, p=
articipate in companies like this, I'm going to try really hard to be eve=
n-handed so as not to offend.
MLMs rely upon recruiting other people below you to profit on a portion o=
f their sales in addition to the income generated by your own sales. Unf=
ortunately, MLMs usually offer products and services at substantially hig=
her prices than can be gotten by shopping around, be it insurance or cosm=
etics.
A harsher view would say that MLMs are a shade away from pyramid schemes,=
which are illegal.
The caller in question, regardless of his initial reason for calling, sou=
nded like yet another familiar predatory telemarketer at best, and more l=
ikely looking for additional recruits and sales than to get a reference.
Regardless, it is certainly foolish for someone to use members of the Ar=
izona Geocaching community without their consent, for references or for d=
irect marketing ---particularly if you may not have been on your best beh=
avior lately.
"You better THINK!" -- A. Franklin
George Harris <george@customcals.com> wrote:
I'm a little confused at this scenario. Was this a genuine character
reference call, or was the caller using the "character reference" comment=
to
get his foot in the door, with the only purpose to see insurance?
----- Original Message ----- =20
From: "Brian - Team A.I." =20
To: =20
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Use of Geocaching.com for commercial
solicitation
I have a feeling I was one of the first on that list of people he's given=
them to call as a character reference. They've called several times, lea=
ving messages on both my home and cellphones. The home phone I don't know=
if I ever gave Ken, but it is a listed number. As far as my cellphone is=
concerned, I'm not sure where that number came into play, but they have =
been annoying in their frequency of calls, none of which I've answered (a=
fter hearing a voice mail they left on my home phone).
In my experience, it's always customary to ASK a person you are using as =
a character reference, and to perhaps give them a call when the hiring pr=
ocess is in full swing so the call from the employer for this type of inf=
ormation isn't unexpected and doesn't catch you off guard. I was never as=
ked to be a character reference, and in all honesty I would refuse for th=
e simple fact that I don't know him well enough to be any kind of charact=
er reference, and my contact with him has been very limited. I am very d=
isappointed on his actions for doing this to more than one person, and it=
does indeed appear that he neglected to ask permission to use anyone as =
a character reference, and for the fact that Primerica is so aggressive i=
n their tactics that as a secondary portion of the conversation they try =
to sell you something like an insurance policy. Give me a freaking break =
already. Knowing now that he's done this, I don't see it being a bad idea=
at all to report this to Geocaching.com. It's no better than trying to h=
arvest e-mail addresses from the main site in an effort to sell penis enl=
argement pills.
Brian
Team A.I.
----- Original Message ----- =20
From: "SquishyGecko" =20
To: =20
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:18 PM
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Use of Geocaching.com for commercial solicitatio=
n
This morning I received a telephone call from someone named Ron Adams, st=
ating that he was doing a "character reference" for Highpointer. After r=
eturning the call and informing Mr. Adams that I had never met Highpointe=
r, he proceeded to state that Highpointer had told Mr. Adams that I was m=
arried with two children, then attempted to sell me an insurance policy.
Not only do I consider this a gross misrepresentation on the part of Mr. =
Adams, but a gross violation of my privacy by Highpointer. I will be con=
tacting Geocaching.com to determine what violations of Geocaching.com reg=
ulations may have been committed by Highpointer. I strongly encourage any=
one else who receives such a call to ask Mr. Adams to add you to his "Do =
Not Call" list, and then report the incident to Geocaching.com.
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Okay gang, it'=
s time to put "Primerica" and "Ron Adams" out of business. Her=
e's the address where you can file a complaint for those who violate the =
"National Do Not Call Registry."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A hre=
f=3D"https://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.aspx">https://www.d=
onotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainCheck.aspx</A> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV=
> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rand (RandMan) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BL=
OCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px=
; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT:=
10pt Arial"><STRONG>----- Original Message -----</STRONG></DIV> <DIV sty=
le=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> <=
STRONG>David Thompsen</STRONG></DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>S=
ent:</B> Friday, May 28, 2004 11:51 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Ari=
al"><B>To:</B> listserv@azgeocaching.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt A=
rial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: ?Re: [Az-Geocaching] Use of Geocaching.com for =
commercial solicitation</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the company that =
<U>the caller in question is Primerica</U>, the scenario is much clearer =
to me. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Primerica is a "multi-level=
marketing" company in the mold of Amway/Quixtar or Mary Kay, except =
;they sell insurance and financial services.</U> As many peopl=
e out there, likely including some that subscribe to this list, participa=
te in companies like this, I'm going to try really hard to be even-handed=
so as not to offend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MLMs rely upon recruit=
ing other people below you to profit on a portion of their sales in addit=
ion to the income generated by your own sales. Unfortunately, MLMs =
usually offer products and services at substantially higher prices than c=
an be gotten by shopping around, be it insurance or cosmetics.</DIV> <DIV=
> </DIV> <DIV>A harsher view would say that MLMs are a shade away fr=
om pyramid schemes, which are illegal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Th=
e caller in question, regardless of his initial reason for calling, sound=
ed like yet another familiar predatory telemarketer at best, and more lik=
ely looking for additional recruits and sales than to get a reference.</U=
></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless, it is certainly foolish for so=
meone to use members of the Arizona Geocaching community without th=
eir consent, for references or for direct marketing ---particularly if yo=
u may not have been on your best behavior lately.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>=
<DIV>"You better THINK!" -- A. Franklin</DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>George =
Harris <george@customcals.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE cla=
ss=3Dreplbq style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1=
010ff 2px solid"> <P>I'm a little confused at this scenario. Was this a g=
enuine character<BR>reference call, <U>or was the caller using the "chara=
cter reference" comment to<BR>get his foot in the door, with the only pur=
pose to see insurance?<BR></U><BR><BR><STRONG>----- Original Message ----=
- </STRONG><BR>From: <STRONG>"Brian - Team A.I." </STRONG><TEAMAI@COX.NET=
><BR>To: <LISTSERV@AZGEOCACHING.COM><BR>Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 8:35 P=
M<BR>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Use of Geocaching.com for commercial<BR=
>solicitation<BR><BR>I have a feeling I was one of the first on that list=
of people he's given them to call as a character reference. <U>They've c=
alled several times, leaving messages on both my home and cellphones.</U>=
The home phone I don't know if I ever gave Ken, but it is a listed numbe=
r. As far as my cellphone is concerned, I'm not sure where that number ca=
me into play, but <U>they have been annoying in their frequency of calls,=
none of which I've answered (after hearing a voice mail they left on my =
home phone).<BR></U></P> <P>In my experience, it's always customary to AS=
K a person you are using as a character reference, and to perhaps give th=
em a call when the hiring process is in full swing so the call from the e=
mployer for this type of information isn't unexpected and doesn't catch y=
ou off guard. I was never asked to be a character reference, and in all h=
onesty I would refuse for the simple fact that I don't know him well enou=
gh to be any kind of character reference, and my contact with him has bee=
n very limited. I am very disappointed on his actions for doing thi=
s to more than one person, and it does indeed appear that he neglected to=
ask permission to use anyone as a character reference, <U>and for the fa=
ct that Primerica is so aggressive in their tactics that as a secondary p=
ortion of the conversation they try to sell you something like an insuran=
ce policy</U>. Give me a freaking break already. Knowing now that he's do=
ne this, I don't see it being a bad idea at all to report this to Geocach=
ing.com. It's no better than trying to harvest e-mail addresses from the =
main site in an effort to sell penis enlargement pills.<BR><BR>Brian<BR>T=
eam A.I.<BR></P> <P> <STRONG>----- Original Message ----- </ST=
RONG></P> <P>From: <STRONG>"SquishyGecko"</STRONG> <SQUISHYGECKO@YAHOO.CO=
M><BR>To: <LISTSERV@AZGEOCACHING.COM><BR>Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:18 =
PM<BR>Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Use of Geocaching.com for commercial solic=
itation<BR><BR><BR>This morning I received a telephone call from someone =
named <STRONG>Ron Adams,</STRONG> stating that he was doing a "character =
reference" for Highpointer. After returning the call and informing =
Mr. Adams that I had never met Highpointer, <U>he proceeded to state that=
Highpointer had told Mr. Adams that I was married with two children, the=
n attempted to sell me an insurance policy.<BR></U><BR>Not only do I cons=
ider this a <U>gross misrepresentation on the part of Mr. Adams,</U=
> but a gross violation of my privacy by Highpointer. I will be contactin=
g Geocaching.com to determine what violations of Geocaching.com regulatio=
ns may have been committed by Highpointer. I strongly encourage anyone el=
se who receives such a call to ask Mr. Adams to add you to his <U>"Do Not=
Call"</U> list, and then report the incident to Geocaching.com.<BR></P><=
FONT face=3Darial size=3D-1><A href=3D"http://messenger.yahoo.com/"></A><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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