[Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!!

Sat Feb 10 12:31:07 MST 2007

WARNING: This is a regular sized email. If you're only a fan of micro emails then ignore this email immediately.

I really agree with AZcachemeister and ShadowAce. At the same time ShadowAce's comments have made me realize that I'm not doing much to help the matter. I'm not very confrontational and I don't like to be very mean and while I encourage someone with larger cohanes to log exactly how they feel, I'm not really willing to do that. I have however decided to change my logging standards. We've become a little more picky when it comes to caches that we hunt. I'm not saying that we've sworn off micros or urban hides as there are some out there that are nice. Basically if I'm planning a cache outing I'll read over the cache description and if it seems suspect I might skim through a few log entries. If it sounds like its behind a Home Depot trash compactor then I'm going to take it off our list. Even with a screening process we still end up doing caches that we would rather not have done. Sure we could have ignored the cache, IF we would have known what we were getting into. Admit
 it, once you're out of the car and searching, you want to find it.

Yesterday I grabbed four urban caches. I also drove past about 2 or 3 others but never even stopped because of the locations. Of those 4, I logged as follows:

Cache #1 - It was a tricky cache container in a relatively pointless location but it belongs to a series and overall it wasn't that bad. My log entry noted the creativity of the cache and thanked the owner.

Cache #2 - A LPC cache located close to a main road and across from an office building. Luckily I could block the traffic with my truck but the container was too big and made the lamp skirt stick up on one side, making it that much more obvious. My log entry said almost nothing, "yup, right where it should have been" and instead of signing off the way I always do "Thanks, Jared" I wrote "TN/LN, Jared". It's subtle, I know.

Cache #3 - A good cache with a significant location. The container was nothing special and the technique was typical, but the location wasn't. My log entry was long, very detailed (without spoilers) and included a Thank You at the end.

Cache #4 - A creative, homemade container in a vagabonds paradise. There were blankets and other things very nearby that indicate homeless people are usually here. My log briefly mentioned the cache container being unique and then I described the homeless persons new "shelter" nearby. I did not thank the cache owners.

This morning I found another urban cache that while not in an especially interesting spot, it was a well planned hide and well stocked, large, cache. I also left a very long detailed log entry for this cache expressing my enjoyment of finding it.

AZcachemeister is right that we need to find a way to increase the quality of urban caches. Urban hides have a place in geocaching and allow for many people to enjoy the game that might not be able to find the rural hides. Helping each other make better decisions about what caches to go after is one thing that we can do to help. While my way isn't blunt and to the point, I'm trying to praise good caches by leaving detailed log entries and ignore bad caches by not giving them the praise they DON'T deserve.

Another, more obvious way of making a difference is by hiding our own caches. I'm not very good at this and often struggle to justify my cache placements because I either think they aren't creative enough or I question whether or not the location is good enough. From what I've seen lately though I would rather find an altoids container in a park than find a well disguised cache behind Wal-Mart. 

Quickly, in regards to the concern about having your log entry deleted if you leave negative feedback. You have a couple options. 
1. You could keep logging the same message back to the cache every time it is deleted making a note that it was deleted. If anyone is watching the cache they'll become aware of the situation and maybe that will affect their next cache placement.
2. You could log a seemingly innocent log entry and then a day or two later edit that log entry and add back the comments in your original log that was deleted. Owners aren't notified when a log entry is edited.
3. While this one is controversial some people do it. If your log entry is repeatedly deleted then log a find on your own cache and specify that it is a log entry for GCxxxxx and the reason you can't log it there followed by your original log entry.

Anyone else have any ideas or comments on how we can improve the caches in our state? Maybe we need a special acronym. Instead of TFTC we could have DWYT (Don't Waste Your Time). Of course we could always start using this website to generate log entries for us: http://loungingatwalden.googlepages.com/RandomLog.html
My favorite generated log entry: "This cache was ill-conceived and ill-received. You should turn your GPS over to the nearest authorities! TNLN and almost didn't bother signing the log!!"

Jared of AZBliss02

----- Original Message ----
From: AZcachemeister <azcachemeister at getnet.com>
To: listserv at azgeocaching.com
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:17:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Only an altoids tin!!

Well, I don't like to insult people by saying their cache is crap, but
aren't they insulting us by bringing us to those areas?

There is nothing of interest at the back of the 99¢ store, nor anything
clever about a shoe-polish can stuffed in a crack in the building.

If we don't start taking some responsibility for our activities,
someone else will.

If enough people start 'telling it like it is' then the cachers hiding
those type of caches just might get the hint.

Regan Smith wrote:

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  Tftc

  Tnlnsl

  Honesty will
get your log deleted

  From:
az-geocaching-bounces at listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-bounces at listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of ShadowAce

  Sent: Friday, February
09, 2007
6:15 PM

  To:
 listserv at azgeocaching.com

  Subject: Re:
[Az-Geocaching] Only
an altoids tin!!

  Scott, 

  With all due respect. Oct 25, 2005 4:02 PM you sent email about how
Micros were evil and now that you had finally reached the top find
counter in
the state you were not going to be going for micros any longer. How
only Urban
caches had any reason to exist and people should help stop the spread
of micro
spew. 

 Yet a very large percent of your cache finds are micros even after the
posts about how Micros should go away. 1114
terrain 1 and 735
difficulty 1
according to the stats you placed on your profile. While I am
sick of
lamp poles and guard rails myself, I merely pointed that story out
because of
how many people caching in Arizona 
tell me at almost every single event 'Permission is not required' or
'Its
public property'. 

 If cachers want to place a micro every 600 feet they will. If they
throw
caches out with no intention of ever maintaining them, they will. Why?
Because
every other cacher is writing 'Great cache, thanks for the hide' and
not
writing.... 

  I was able to grab this cache
quickly though
I had to shield the location with my rear side from the dumpster divers.
or After sifting through the
garbage left by
the homeless in the area, we found your cache. 

 Never would have known about this
place, because we generally avoid dumpsters.

   I have been trying to be very honest in my logs about
areas
such as these and instead of getting 'Hay thanks for warning me that
place was
going to be so terrible', I receive emails saying 'Why are you such an
ass? If
you dont like the cache, dont go find it!' 

 Welp the problem with this is from the writeups you have no idea if it
will be a real interesting place such as the one we found last night
called
Hope, or in a pile of trash until you get to the location.

 So instead of complaining about the TYPE of cache, I was merely
pointing
out that Permission should be obtained on ALL cache hides. Heck I spent
2 years
getting permission for one place. 4 weeks to get permission for another
cache.
5 weeks of emails to get permission for one location and then other
people just
throw more caches in the area when they came.. Yep I caught hell from
the
person that granted me permission to place mine after that.. Joy joy...

 If people hate micros so much, why do they continue to grab them and
write 'Thanks for the fun'?

  On
2/9/07, Roping
The Wind <arizcowboy at hotmail.com>
wrote:

The geocacher who placed the altoid tin says he "wished others had told
him

this was not a good place to put a cache". I can only laugh at that

statement. The gc.com site clearly states
that you
must get permission to 

place a cache on private property!!! Did he not read that little tidbit
of

information? Typical of alot of urban cache hides. Is he now trying to
put

it onto the geocaching community as a whole? Making the whole
game/community 

look bad?

I do agree though that law enforcement over reacted... kinda like the
little

  Boston 
cartoon
'bomb' scare thing.

The other thing that comes to my mind is that he is relatively new to
the 

game and this is most of what he has seen so far... a bunch of altoid
tins

behind stores and on electrical boxes and the like. So, he might have

thought it was totally ok to hide a cache like this... even though, as
I 

mentioned before, he should have gotten permission to place it in the
first

place.

I do like this quote though: "I've discovered that I really don't like
urban

caching. I'd rather do it in the woods. That's where it's really fun,"
he 

said.

As of the past month and a half now, I have not found an urban cache
hide. I

dont mind going a week without finding a cache anymore. But I have
decided

that I only want to do rural area caches. Caches that require a hike to
get 

to or maybe a nice 4x4 drive or maybe just a drive by cache placed in a

beautiful location way outside the city limit signs. Or maybe caches
placed

in small towns is ok too. Basically, caches placed with the location in

mind. I have been using the DGP geocaching site lately to pick and
choose

caches to find.

The past month or so, I have found a much greater enjoyement for the
game

again. It feels like the old days of caching 4 or 5 years ago when I
first 

began. I can't say I will never find an urban cache again. But I am

carefully picking and choosing which ones I want to find.

Scott

Team Ropingthewind

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