[Az-Geocaching] Cacher has cops called and detained by Home Depotemployees

Tue Aug 15 17:02:17 MST 2006

When I was in Washington I was detained while trying to get a cache at IKea.
An hour or so later I had the officers on the phone with groundspeak. The
cache was archived while on the phone with the officer and I was told never
to return to that location.

 Turns out the cache owner never spoke to the store and the cache was placed
in an alley where drug deals were common, so saying I was looking for a
geocache (A small container with a log sheet as part of a game) only helped
the officer believe I was looking for hidden illegal objects.

 I was looking at a very large fine, but luckily the people at groundspeak
took care of the situation and promised the officer no caches would be
listed at the location again.

 I have heard the flip sides of this arguement enough times to know that
people are going to argue either way.

"IF I can play frisbee I can hide a cache"
"IF you place it without permission it is illegal"

 Groundspeak has covered themselves fairly well I would say by reading the
guidelines and the cache submission report. When you place a cache, you tell
groundspeak that you have permission. If you lied, then it is between you,
the cacher who gets detained and the enforcing agency.

 Last I new, groundspeak basically tells property managers to call the
police if someone is trespassing.

 It is amazing how many caches we have walked away from because of the 'NO
TRESPASSING' signs near the cache container.

 It is sad but many cachers believe they have the right to go anywhere they
want to and do not want to talk to the land manager or owner because they
know the answer would be no. So instead of getting permission or working out
an agreement, they lie and say they recieved permission.

Please make sure to obtain permission from the landowner or land manager
and  read the guidelines for reporting a cache prior to placing your
geocache.

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate
permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache.

Anyone who does not have permission to place the cache is simply wrong in my
opinion. (Yep, its just an opinion and it is mine so it is not worth arguing
about)

This is the log that I love ever since it was first shown to me:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=21328&log=y#322202

It is even funnier to look at the logs and forums from that time of all the
people who stand up and shout that nobody has a right to tell us not to
place a cache somewhere.

 Cachers will continue to get in trouble with land managers and more land
managers will ban geocaching. Least we do not live in some east coast states
where we have to get signed permission for ever cache we place.

 Someday .. maybe.

On 8/15/06, Jon Liming <lawdog3248 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Well, soeaking as a law enforcement officer,  if I encountered a situation
> like this and wasn't a geocacher, I would've handled it much in the way that
> the officer Scott ran into did.
>
> Now I'm not a lawyer and no legal advice is offered in this, but the
> detained cacher in question may have an actionable offense against Home
> Depot for unlawful detainment. In a case like this, Home Depot could have
> directed the cacher to leave and not return, but the detention is in
> question. Law Enforcement often has to deal with over zeolous businesses
> doing things like this. I'd wager the officer was a little less than tactful
> if it happened as recorded since this type of nonsense takes away from our
> real jobs. Best thing to do in a situation if you were dentained in this
> manner is to simply walk away. If they attempt to detain you, inform them
> you will be filing a lawsuit. Chances are, they will back down. Also, the
> cacher in question in this home depot incident probably needs also mention
> the person in charge of the detention in his or her letter to the corporate
> office. Odds are this person will recieve some sort of reprimand and
> retraining on how to handle these situations.
>
> I also prefer more remote caches, mostly because I don't like being
> watched when I'm caching.
>
> Jon
> Team LawDog
>
>
> *Roping The Wind <arizcowboy at hotmail.com>* wrote:
>
> While I agree the situation that occured at the Home Depot is a bit
> extreme...
>
> MANY caches placed in urban areas are often placed at business
> locations...
> usually in parking lots (lamp posts) or around back of the stores, etc.
> Although these places 'seem' to be public, they are VERY MUCH private
> property. THE CACHE OWNER NEEDS TO GET PERMISSION WHENEVER A CACHE IS
> PLACED
> ON PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!! It is stated so clearly on the geocaching.com web
> site! Unfortunately, probably 99 percent of the time, the cache owner does
>
> not get permission and just places the cache, thinking the area is public.
>
> Unless you are patronizing the business, then you are trespassing.
>
> I thought a person would have to be asked first to leave, then if they
> didnt... they could be considered trespassing. But I am not a police
> officer, so I dont really know the extent of that law. But that isnt what
> this is about.
>
> It is about getting permission before placing caches on private property.
> I
> can tell of a similar situation at a cache behind the businesses on
> Stapley/60. I was searching for the cache when a police officer came up
> and
> asked me what I was doing. I told him I was geocaching and explained what
> it
> was and offered to show him the cache. He wasnt really interested and just
>
> told me I needed to leave or whatever and that I was trespassing. So I
> left.
> I have had similar situations a number of times.
>
> I can tell you of yet another situation I encountered. I parked my truck
> in
> the parking lot of a business to find a cache nearby. This cache was not
> actually on this businesses property. But rather on the property of a
> business across the street! This cache took me a while to find, but it
> didnt
> take very long for a tow truck to show up to my truck. As I came back to
> my
> truck, I found the tow truck getting into position to hook it up. After
> some
> smooth talking, I was able to leave.
>
> Perhaps some people get a thrill out of the 'stealth' factor of geocaching
>
> in urban places such as these and the need to trespass to find a cache.
> Perhaps the cache owners get a kick out of reading logs about situations
> like this and even situations like that that occured at that Home Depot.
> Frankly, I do not. We all know that it is easy enough to say we are
> shopping
> at the business and not that we are geocaching. But why should I have to
> lie
> to someone when I am approached? I just tell them what I am doing. I am
> geocaching. I will offer to show them the cache everytime. If they dont
> like
> it, I tell them how they can email the cache owner to have it removed. If
> they ask me to leave, I will leave. These situation are occuring more and
> more these days, it seems. But again, these situations should not happen.
> If
> the cache owner got permission in the first place. I would feel so much
> more
> relaxed and comfortable walking toward a cache in an area that is
> questionable (in terms of private property) if the cache description
> simply
> said in it "this cache was placed with permission from property owner".
>
> Geocaching.com cant police these kinds of things. It is up to the
> geocachers, those that find the caches, to police the game. If there are
> people out there that insist on placing caches on private property without
>
> the consent of the property owners... then the cachers that first seek out
>
> those caches should put an archive note log on the cache page. This
> assumes,
> of course, that the cache description doesnt have something stating that
> permission was obtained to place the cache. If it doesnt state in the
> description that permission was obtained, I can only assume that it was
> not.
>
> There are several caches placed at Home Depots around the valley, I might
> add.
>
> I would bet any amount of money, that if you asked a store owner if you
> could place a cache on the property..... most of the time they would be
> cool
> with it (why not!? It promotes the store and brings more people onto the
> property).
>
> You will notice that over the past year or more, I have been doing less
> and
> less urban caching. I prefer caches outside of the city areas, as I dont
> have to deal with stuff like this. I still do urban caches, but I dont
> feel
> the need to go find every one anymore. There are several within a couple
> miles of my house that I have passed up on finding because they just dont
> interest me anymore. I have no interest in playing 'stealth ninja'
> anymore.
> I did that for many years back in my childhood days. Ive grown up since.
> Its
> situations like the one that just occured at the Home Depot that turn me
> off
> more and more from geocaching. But soon enough, I find myself out on a
> quite
> and pleasant hike thru the forest to search for a tupperware container or
> an
> ammo box in some quite remote location that keeps the joy and excitement
> of
> geocaching alive for me.
>
> Scott
> Team Ropingthewind
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv at azgeocaching.com
> To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
> http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>
> Arizona's Geocaching Resource
> http://www.azgeocaching.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv at azgeocaching.com
> To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
> http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>
> Arizona's Geocaching Resource
> http://www.azgeocaching.com
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/pipermail/az-geocaching/attachments/20060815/f6422056/attachment.htm