[Az-Geocaching] Unable to search vs unable to retrieve

[Mike Schwarz]

I do want to make a distinction between: 1. being unable to SEARCH
for a cache for any reason (either too many people in the area,
or a national forest sign that says "Closed"), and: 2. being able to
search for a cache, finding it and seeing it, but being unable
to RETRIEVE it without people nearby seeing you do so.

If you cannot search for and locate a cache, that should never, ever
count as a find.  Just being at or near the coordinates doesn't count.
LOCATING AND SEEING the cache does count as a find, after you've been
able to search for it.  In my opinion, you would need to be close
enough to it to actually retrieve it (or, in the rare situation where
a cache was placed too high, directly below it).  I also feel you
should be ready to provide the cache owner with a private email,
giving a detailed description of exactly where the cache was, to
prove that you did indeed locate the container.

Here is a quote from a log back in January of this year, from a
person who has dropped out of geocaching:

"I went to the cache site and located the cache, but the area was very 
busy. There was no way to remove the cache, sign the assumed logbook, 
and return it without doing so successfully. So, the fact that I did 
locate the cache counts as a find."
"My advice to others: Please don't cause this cache to become 
liberated by extracting it with people there. Simply log your find 
if you locate it. Let's see if we can work together to help this cache 
remain as long as possible."

I agree with this 100 PERCENT.  This cache lasted until early April;
however, it now has at the top of the description, in red letters:
"ALERT! The cache no longer exists, whether by act of nature or 
other circumstance."  I am sure no act of nature caused this cache
to disappear.  Someone who was determined to sign the logsheet
probably pulled it out when other people were nearby.

To reiterate, the importance of not having the cache liberated
OVERRIDES the importance of signing the logbook/sheet.  If you are
able to search for the cache and locate it, and can describe to the
owner the EXACT location to prove that you located it, and were
literally within a few feet of it (not behind some Forest Service
sign a few hundred feet away), then it is perfectly valid to log
this as a find on the cache's web page.

If the cache owner specifically insists that a searcher sign the
logsheet prior to logging a find, in their description for that
cache, then you should adhere to what the cache owner specifies.
In my opinion, the end result of this is an enhanced chance that 
the cache will be liberated.  If the description for the cache
doesn't specifically state that you need to sign the physical
log sheet, then I would say you should always NOT retrieve the
cache if city workers or others are nearby, send a private email
to the cache owner describing EXACTLY where the cache was, and
log it as a find on the web.

Mike
Team Malthusian

At Mon, 01 Jul 2002 21:00:21 -0700, Scott wrote:
>
>I very much agree with Steve (Tierra Buena) on the subject of logging a 
>find. No log... no find. That is how I do it anyways. Part of the fun of 
>geocaching (and the challenge) is getting to the cache and logging it. I 
>personally would not feel like I accomplished anything if I didn't sign the 
>logbook. The feeling of accomplishment would be lost. Especially on urban 
>caches. I found 14 caches today. I could have had probably 16 or 17. 
>However, one cache (I cant think of the name of it off hand; in a park near 
>Union Hills west of Cave Creek) I found myself sitting for probably a half 
>an hour or more waiting for some park workers to move. They were just 
>sitting there right in the area I was to search for the coords for the 
>second part of that multi-cache. I finally left and went for a couple others 
>and returned a couple hours later. They were still there! Just sitting there 
>in the shade! Geez! Look where our tax dollars is going! I waited again for 
>another half hour or so before finally calling it quits on that one and 
>heading off to another cache. I could never consider that a 'find'! I never 
>saw it. Never had the chance though! I also wasnt going to walk on over and 
>start searching in front of them!
>
>I have had situations where I laid eyes on a micro cache but could not 
>retrieve it and again had to come back another time. To me that is not a 
>find if I could not log into it. Even if that cache is 100 miles from my 
>house. That is all part of the challenge.
>
>I have had many, many, many situations were I didnt get to the cache due to 
>too many people in the area. I simply went back another day or another time 
>and found it and logged it.
>
>Everyone plays the game a bit differently. This is just how Team 
>Ropingthewind does it!
>
>Scott
>Team Ropingthewind
>
>Team Ropingthewind's web page:
>http://www.safwp.bravepages.com/geocaching.html
>
>